Mystical Training: The Good Shepherdess

History and tradition suggests that wielders of shepherd's staves have great power. Using it, much less wisely, isn't a matter of min-maxing.

History and tradition suggests that wielders of shepherd’s staves have great power. Using it, much less wisely, isn’t a matter of min-maxing.

The Henshin Mystic is a curiously different type of Monk, and I’m beginning to see where the developers were going with it. As noted before, when there’s new content or class abilities, I find myself engrossed with playing and discussing it until my eyes turn red, trying to understand all the nuances and advantages and weaknesses as I go.

I’ll try to make this post the last one for the Mystic for a while…I swear atop a pile of orc corpses!

Some DDO forum members have heavily criticized the Mystic as being too light on spell power and special abilities. Being a player that loves to push a pure Monk to its limits without multiclassing, I’ve disagreed with their assessment, based on what I’ve experienced in gameplay. More on that in a bit.

I’ve also had to change my thinking radically on the use of tactical feats as well as how to play this particular Monk.

Most of you are familiar with these feats, although I’ve used them sparingly to this point since the Monk has one famed unarmed combat feat (which gains benefits from tactical DC bonuses) that pales to others: Stunning Fist. No character can stun as rapidly or surely as a Monk, which helps a lot in party tactics.

Now armed with a quarterstaff as a Mystic for practically all fighting and loving it, I was reluctant to give up staff fighting in favor of going unarmed for stunning, no matter how often I can make stuns land. There’s just far more sustained damage with a Mystic and a quarterstaff. More versatility.

There’s incredible versatility of a two-handed weapon like the quarterstaff, especially with Update 19 and the Mystic training. The developers wanted to make the Mystic a very superior quarterstaff attacker. They just didn’t need to rewrite or create a lot of new feats or abilities to make this happen for them. The Mystic’s special ki attacks are just icing to help in crowd level damage, which a Mystic is great at doing better than any other Heroic level Monk or non-spellcaster.

So here are things I have already or have begun to work into and out of my combat routine as well as discoveries that may be a bit noobish for a few of you veterans of sword-and-board fighting. Bear with me.

Out: Stunning Blow

After you’ve enjoyed the speed of unarmed stunning, Stunning Blow is quite disappointing. It’s highly unreliable for me, likely because my STR isn’t quite as high as Fighters at that level who would use it. It also has a far slower cooldown.

I added Blow not long ago to try it out. Since it’s true to its name (and not in a good way), It’s getting swapped out for…

In: Improved Trip

I’ve done some research on which is the better: Stunning Blow or Improved Trip. While a few responses noted that Fighters have enough feat slots to take both, those who didn’t have feat slots out the ying-yang generally favored Improved Trip. On a good DC, it knocks an enemy prone. Not for 6 seconds as with stunning, but for up to 1 full minute. While prone, the enemy can’t do anything. It’s not quite helpless as with stunning, but word on the street is that it is far more reliable.

Improved Trip also has a 10 second cooldown. No rapid use here, but it may be good as part of a chain of attack strategies. It requires Combat Expertise, but I have that already as part of my other combat requirements.

In my early tests, it looks like Improved Trip needs a really high STR to work, so I haven’t much success. Since my attack damage is also tied into STR, it’ll serve to continue adding points to it as much as possible. It may be that I’ll swap this out for something that aids in damage if Trip requires a crapload of DC improvements and STR I cannot muster.

In: Improved Sunder (and eventually, Cleave)

Early in the Monk guide’s second life, I’ve watched several forum members all but require the use of Improved Sunder for better DCs to stun. Improved Sunder gives a similar effect to Improved Destruction in that it damages AC and fortification. Unlike Improved Destruction, Improved Sunder adds a stacking -3 penalty to fortitude saves for up to 24 seconds to make landing tactical attacks easier.

Given that I plan to ensure that my enemies get a good Trip into the afterlife, I’m thinking more of this feat. As an unarmed Monk, we’d spam our elemental attacks, the late lamented Void Strikes of old, and Stunning Fist. With a staff, an Improved Sunder might be the first attack, followed by a Trip attempt.

The challenge here were my remaining feat slots as I approached level 20 and where to fit this one in. I thought of trading off Stunning Fist here and sacrifice my former dominant life as an unarmed stunner. I sacrificed Stunning Blow instead. I kept thinking, as I worked Quintessica to level 20 over the past weekend, that I needed something to “fall back” to if something goes wrong with staff fighting. But really, little has gone wrong. In place of stunning, Quintessica doesn’t let something live long enough to damage her.

Several prerequisites of Legendary Dreadnought abilities require the Cleave feat, despite me having Whirlwind Attack already. I hope to punch that one into Quintessica using one of the Epic Feat slots.

Previously Added: Combat Expertise and Whirlwind Attack

Many players think others are nuts to spend four feat slots and have INT 13 on a Monk to get Whirlwind (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise), especially if they continue to believe that the feat is bugged for everyone. I have all these feats already trained with Quintessica.

Like the Hide/Move Silently/Jump points I invested in most of my Monks before Update 19’s change to the stealth system, I find myself still justified in taking Whirlwind. It’s a 4(W) attack, folks. What happens if that thing goes critical?

The answer is, about 300-500 damage.

I’m searching about for a paralyzing weapon to help with light crowd control since this attack hits all in its wide attack area.

Combat Expertise is a really good idea for a Mystic. While they get impressive damage ability, their class tree adds practically nothing to their defense. Toggle on this feat and you get a 10% bonus from your total AC added to your AC. Nice, right?

Then all that a Mystic needs to do is to switch to Mountain Stance. In Grandmaster mode, you get (among other things) a 20% bonus to AC. Better, right?

How ’bout this? Combat Expertise and Grandmaster of Mountains bonuses add together. I get a 30% AC bonus in this mode. That is superior. With Quin now at level 20, this stance is often where I keep her.

Strength and Damage

The quarterstaff is a stronger weapon than a one-handed blade. The advantage comes from how damage is calculated. With a single blade, you add your STR modifier to your melee attack roll and your damage roll. If you wield a two-handed weapon such as a staff, your damage roll is 1.5 times your STR modifier. Ow. That’s hefty.

That brings me to Power Attack. I’ve had a love-hate relationship with this one, likely because I nerfed myself when taking this and also taking Weapon Finesse on my early unarmed builds, screwing with my attack rolls, I think, while fighting with less STR.

With Power Attack, one-handed weapons (and unarmed attacks) exchange 5 from the attack roll for 5 damage. But quarterstaves double this bonus, exchanging 5 attack for 10 damage. Hefty, hefty, hefty.

Let’s add in the Mystic’s Staff Training and Staff Specialization that adds to-hit and damage and ultimately raises the critical threat and range. More hefty.

So the quarterstaff’s simplicity belies its effectiveness. Now all one needs to do is to use the right one, as mentioned in a recent post.

The New Spam: It’s Got More Spam in It

As mentioned before, a Monk’s unarmed attack pattern is commonly  a flurry of blows designed to (1) halt a target (2) damage it severely (3) kill it quickly (duh). This is often done by starting with a  (1) Stunning Fist, (2) chained elemental attacks and some finishing moves often peppered in to heal or buff or debuff, and (3) Stunning Fist again. If you have Improved Destruction, use Improved Sunder or use neg-leveling Life Stealing effects, you can keep a target immobile in a state of permanent stun to their death.

But a staff-wielding Mystic has to think “fighter” and less monastic. I suspect the results should be as good, if not better, than in unarmed mode (I can’t believe I just said that).

So, at first I imagined Quin beginning with an (1) Improved Sunder to reduce AC, fortification and fortitude save, (2) Improved Trip to knock them on their ass, (3) a Quick Strike mode, adding 25% doublestrike to the mix for 10 seconds while (4) spamming elemental, Void Strike attacks and chaining finishing moves as she goes, repeating the sundering and tripping as needed. She kicks on Power Attack for more stubborn enemies but otherwise keeps defenses up with Combat Expertise, switching to different Monk stances as ki management and defenses require.

This should be a great attack chain–but it’s wrong. Not against solo enemies, but mobs. That’s where the Mystic does its magic.

Quintessica reached level 20 this past weekend. As I began training her Legendary Dreadnought skills, I took Quin into “Lines of Supply,” a new and creative Stormhorns quest. There, several caravans of enemies emerge from a cave, some moving slowly to their destination, others zerging. They don’t stop to fight you; they have orders to keep moving. Depending on the enemy’s speed and durability, you have a very limited time to destroy them before they reach the end of the path and out of your reach.

My Onyx Panther and a hireling (for Death Ward and a little healing when he thinks of doing it) began the counterassault at approximately 12-15 enemies at once. I threw Incinerating Wave (a targetable, moving Wall of Fire and Force damage) as fast as the 9 second cooldown allowed to soften up the group. I mosh-pit into the mob and spin away with Whirlwind to knock more sense out of them, then break out and repeat.

I only had a problem with the gnolls, who fly by in a hasted rush and require a more direct knockdown or paralysis to slow long enough to kill. I couldn’t blast them all fast enough.

After this interesting and different quest was done, I thought of what Quin could’ve done if I had her Grandmaster of Flowers powers activated.

The Good Shepherdess of Bad, Bad Sheep

Not quite as peaceful as this Good Shepherd. Less Messianic overtones. More use of the stick.

Not quite as peaceful as this Good Shepherd. Less Messianic overtones. More use of the stick.

As mentioned a moment ago, I came across a DDO forums thread with comments from many players on what they like and don’t like about the Mystic. There was a mixed level of supporters versus dissenters.

I’ve read through the entire thread to-date to sum up the general arguments against the Mystic.

The first 5 are from the original poster:

  1. Using a quarterstaff means that you can’t use Stunning Fist.
  2. The DCs for finishing moves are too low.
  3. Spell power is too low.
  4. Not a “magic monk” as seen in films.
  5. DCs and Wisdom aren’t competitive at end-game fights.
  6. We can’t play the Mystic like an unarmed Monk.

I chimed in favor of the Mystic’s good qualities. No surprise, there.

The most common complaint suggests a sense of failed expectations on the part of some players. They expected a LOT more “Mystic” to the point where the class tree would appear magical. I can appreciate their imaginations. However, implementing something new like the Mystic had to have some checks and balances. Further…and this is important since this is a form of D&D we’re talking about–the 3.5e ruleset of the pen-and-paper class that our Mystic is based on (named there as a Henkan Mystic) isn’t staff-dominant, is still ki-based and still wields fire damage on attacks. It’s far less “uber” or magical in that version than the DDO counterpart.

Stunning Fist is working as intended. Emphasis on the fist part. You can play the Mystic without the staff and stun things. But that’s not where it’s training goes.

It’s not as if the dissenters are new to DDO, and they have lots of play experience, so I’m not trying to vilify them. But here are my points to support the Mystic class tree’s abilities, especially now that I’ve reached level 20 and can see more clearly where the Mystic path continues.

As I did early on in playing the Mystic, some posters lost sight on the Mystic as a different kind of fighter that works with more Fighter class principles, not Monk. And they’re totally wrong on the quarterstaff damage and the Fire/Force damage numbers that I’ve seen.

I capped off my comment to remind people that the Mystic is a new class tree. Like the Ninja and Shintao lines, it takes time for it to mature.

So here’s my summations.

1) The Mystic is designed to be a mob-harassment character.

Combined with Incinerating Wave to weaken a mob, the Mystic uses their monastic skills to evade and dodge attacks, delivering death by bludgeoning to those who get too close, while pouring on the Fire and Force damage. In Heroic mode, the player has to think outside of the unarmed Monk box and more as a typical Fighter, adding in Cleave and similar tactical feats for improving weapon damage, while adding in the more offensive ki strikes. Stunning is not to be for the Mystic–but mass damage to mobs is the thing.

That doesn’t mean at all that a Mystic isn’t a decent fighter. Far from it! The right staves deliver harsh damage. But, like any other character, you often need to add in a special attack to gain an advantage–you can’t just go in swinging. For unarmed Monks, it’s Stunning Fist. For the Mystic, you send in an Incinerating Wave in Heroic, or something else. Unlike a ranged player, the Mystic does hold still for some fighting, but needs a little distance to throw a few effects to keep the mobs forming up ahead of her, and easy prey for the rest of the party.

You don’t play the Mystic as a typical Monk. That’s refreshing, and leaves room to explore.

By level 20, my Incinerating Wave deals 100 or more combined damage–more if the spell critical hits, if I’m wearing spell power boosts or if the enemy is especially vulnerable.  That’s a very good start against a mob, particularly if you can do it every 9 seconds while they’re just chasing you around for a bit before you smack them about like gnats after a few passes.

2) Grandmaster of Flowers mode will be so wickedly-powerful in combination with a Mystic that it’s almost overpowered.

When Quintessica reached level 20, she trained her last core ability, Serenity. It’s a vestigial part of the old Monk capstone that mates well. She got +2 WIS, +10 Concentration, +1 to passive ki regeneration and +25 to Fire and Force spell power and more to critical chance to that damage.

What most Monks see at level 20 is that their ki bar has greatly improved with nice level of regeneration, often going to perhaps less than 1/2 filled after a few minutes of idle. Most Monks see +1 or +2 at this point to passive ki regeneration.

Quintessica sees +2 to +6, depending on if she’s in Ocean Stance, has less than 50% health, and has Grandmaster of Flowers destiny up or has twisted one ability called Enlightenment. By the time her ki bar stops filling while idle, it’s 3/4 full, around 280 ki.

This would be like a spellcaster’s Echoes of Power getting a boost to regenerate mana five-fold, I figure. Quin has massive reserves of regenerating power.

In short, with all of the Flower power attacks, the magic-balls of Lily Petal and Orchid Blossom, the knockdown-rich stomp and magic slam of Drifting Lotus, combined with the Mystic’s own powers of melee and ki damage, make this class a whirling dervish of death. Spellcasters can be too fragile and generate too much aggro if they target too much at once. The Mystic wants this attention. Not so much as a tanker, but to keep a mob aggravated, weakened and chasing them–while the rest of the party clobbers them from behind.

A Mystic is a staff-wielding shepherd that leads her sheep to the slaughter with attacks that damage from afar and compel the evil sheep to follow, lining up for their doom. They’re more durable than many casters and can regenerate power to fight far longer.

3) A Mystic in full combat mode using the Legendary Dreadnought mode has heartstopping potential.

Where the Mystic comes up short in Heroic mode: More HP and STR, is compensated in Dreadnought mode. Quin will also have more tactical DCs for Improved Sunder and Trip. More PRR from Improved Combat Expertise. More area-of-effect damage swings from Momentum Swing and Lay Waste (once I divorce myself of one more feat or add Cleave for this prerequisite). Attack Boosts, especially Haste, that, combined with Quick Strike, should make terribly, ridiculously quick work of even Red-Named bosses. There’s also the Lightning Mace strike with a staff, which will deliver 10d100 electrical damage and 15% enhancement to doublestrike for 6 seconds.

Since the Mystic should be training up the non-monastic tactical feats such as Cleave, that leads them to charging up the LD’s Epic Moment: the Master’s Blitz.

When I used this with Lynncletica in an Epic Hard “Devil Assault,” I mopped the floor in that place! As you know, Lynncletica is my tanker and has impressive damage in unarmed mode. But Quin’s attacks at level 20 often exceed L25 Lynn’s, and Quin is barely back in her Epic jammies.

Add in the spin attacks and LD strikes with the Blitz, and Quin should be the most powerful fighter in my dojo.

Guess I’m going to have to throw some screenshots up with piles of dead Drow at my feet.

27 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. ddomicki
    Oct 09, 2013 @ 02:32:31

    My multiclassed mystic is still just a baby at lvl 6. Currently 1 rogue/ 2 monk/ 3 wizard. On my first quickbar I have cleave, stunning blow, elemental strikes, sunder and trip. And I spam them. I’m using fire stance and pale blue ioun stone and have a str of 26. Currently I just like running into crowds of mobs and cleaving, stunning and tripping everything, what’s left dies with the elemental strikes. My only issue is that I currently down have fortification, so anything that doesn’t die fast enough (e.g. earth elementals), tend to crit me to death (ranged party member to the rescue). 🙂 Oh, and I’m def thinking this will be a blitzing toon when she hits epic levels. I’m not as good with the numbers and technical specs are u are, though, lol.

    • teachersyn
      Oct 09, 2013 @ 08:46:18

      I took Quin into the King’s Forest solo last night to test her against Epic level guys there. She passed. Contrary to the forum naysayers, her Incinerating Wave tended to tick 100-300 points off of these guys, making mob management far easier. You might run into an issue with your overall defense since Mystics have the bare-bones as a pure Monk, much less what you gain or lose in multiclassing. Let us know how metamagics are faring for you and if they help. I’m looking forward to seeing how the LD Blitz works here, too. It’s got to be awesome. I know it! Your experience suggests that I’m still missing something with Trip, or your enemies at your level are easily tripped over high-level people.

    • teachersyn
      Oct 09, 2013 @ 09:37:07

      Oh, regarding earth elementals: I think they are some of the harder things (no pun intended) to rid yourself of in-game. Banishers, once you’re able to use one, seems too slow. Elemental bane works faster. Level draining the SOBs while crunching them at the same time using a Dreamspitter seems best. I got by with a Petrifying Shadow Staff in “Acid Wit” and the acidstone elementals there, but being wood, that staff took a very quick beating. The Dreamspitter almost never wears out even in continuous fighting unless it’s broken a bit on dying with the rest of your stuff. At low level, the Force damaging Arlyn’s Staff might be the ticket. Don’t forget the Ki Bolt. Not only does it cause damage but a stacking max -5 to all saving throws.

      • FuzzyDuck81
        Oct 09, 2013 @ 10:25:40

        elemental bane is nice, but banishers are better as they still do bane damage while you’re hoping for that instakill to work 🙂
        Depending on APs available, you can still take shintao dismissing strike too – 12AP needed in total to get it.

        • John B.
          Oct 09, 2013 @ 11:01:24

          As a Henshin, it might be worth it to dip into some of the other trees a bit anyway. Being given access to all of the finishers, might be nice to have some of the curatives for now being given access to Healing Ki.

  2. FuzzyDuck81
    Oct 09, 2013 @ 03:50:13

    I’ve been wanting to try out mystic a bit more too, will get around to it soonish i expect 🙂 I’m also considering cramming in the magical training feat on it & then trying it out in the draconic incarnation destiny, using red dragon (ie fire) focus, and figure that’ll be more like the crazy magical monk of the films 🙂

    • teachersyn
      Oct 09, 2013 @ 08:41:20

      It’s the one thing I haven’t seen any information or anecdotes from the forum as yet, which would be very interesting. If you multiclass a spellcaster with a Mystic, do the metamagic feats amplify spell power? If it does, is there a downside? Ki isn’t mana. So the cost to use metamagics on ki would have no downside, if it works.

      • FuzzyDuck81
        Oct 09, 2013 @ 09:31:02

        Will roll up an iconic later & check it out – fairly sure they don’t though.

  3. John B.
    Oct 09, 2013 @ 07:08:54

    I too have been wanting to better try out the Mystic. I do have a few nice staves around, so it wouldn’t be too much issue. I don’t have a free slot right now. Maybe I’d just TR my Ninja into one for the fun of it. Besides, I rather enjoy the idea of playing an acrobat without all of the hate of zero trap skills. :3

    That said, not much to say on the article. I expected most of it, and honestly found myself more surprised at the use of Tenacious Badger for your Animal Path. I do wonder how Improved Trip would work, however. On a Fire Stance monk, I could only get my DC to about oh…24 or so. An extra 10 via Vertigo +10 item (Such as a Drow Weapon Master Quarterstaff).

    • teachersyn
      Oct 09, 2013 @ 08:39:14

      When I feel like a better Trip, I just turn to the Stout Oak Walking Stick and its built-in, no-save Trip. Watching golems and hounds and constructs fall to the floor is just a hoot. But I’ll keep working and researching Trip. It’s got to be more reliable for other classes since Stunning Blow is so slow.

      • John B.
        Oct 09, 2013 @ 10:49:38

        It might work better for say… a Dwarven fighter / barbarian, I suppose. The tactics enhancements and all. You could get a few more from the Spare Hand belt, adding a +5 to it. Fighter Past Lives add +1 to DCs each, I think.

  4. Kavatch2.1
    Oct 09, 2013 @ 12:42:36

    Oh I loves the henshin and am quite happy to answer a few questions I can see on this page involving combat feats and metamagics. First off metas do NOT work with Henshin abilitys as do any epic destiny spell power or spell crit enhances. On the topic of trips and sum such I can say that With the Stout and Fury of the Wilds overwhelming force no save knockdown making the enemy helpless for 2/6/10 seconds (may not be working right now) you will want to swap out any trip feats you have as they will be almost useless in eh and ee. Though leading up to epics I can say that imp. trip and ww attack have been good to me. BTW easy trip dc is (14 imp. trip)+(10 dc weapon/item)+(6 excep combat mastery)+(6 dread legendary tactics)+(str mod average of + 10)= 46 dc, more with fighter lives, racials and fighter/rogue splash.

    • teachersyn
      Oct 09, 2013 @ 12:54:52

      Good info. The Mystic gains their own spell power and criticals and gets bonuses from equipment, so I’m surprised that ED spell criticals or non-meta spell power boosts aren’t recognized. Given that some classes can get STR to insane levels (50+), I don’t see any pure Mystic gaining much luck with Trip later based on your note. What STR do you have that helps your Trip in non-Epic? Looks like my feats might start steering to damage improvements, although I hope to keep Imp. Sunder and have the DCs to make that work.

      • Kavatch2.1
        Oct 09, 2013 @ 15:18:29

        Fighters get their ability to use combat feats effectively through power surge and tactics enhancements. Barbarians get crazy good str scores and Rogue acrobats are supposed to specialize in trips but they only really get a +3 to its dc. For staff fighting My str score at 20 is around 34-36+5 (get primal scream and twist it) +4 if you can get tensers umd from a rogue splash For the most part you can afford to drop wis slightly due to the loss of stunning fist and the fact that you don’t generate enough ki to use qp often enough. I just went imp. trip and ww til lvl 20 and then swapped out feats for more toughness. On a side note I was messing with my henshin and found that if i hit sf before the ww animation finished while i was unarmed it stunned everything, is this still working I havent been on since 19.1.

        • teachersyn
          Oct 09, 2013 @ 16:32:54

          Funny that you mentioned that dual effect. It would take precise timing but, yeah, I’ve seen other attacks “add” into the Whirlwind. There’s so much button mashing going on that it might be hard to time, but not impossible. Thanks very much for the general STR numbers. It gives us a realistic perspective. We’ll never be Barbarians but we have a shot at good damage.

  5. erdrique
    Oct 09, 2013 @ 14:33:41

    Excellent write up!! I’m just barely getting into the monk thinking with my own Shintao monk and have monks to be very versatile and intriguing to play. Sounds like the Mystic is a fun mix of a crown control fighter and caster mashed together. I look forward to doing one eventually.

  6. Kavatch2.2
    Oct 11, 2013 @ 16:14:57

    Good news everyone! WW attack and QP work while thf but does not hit twice like I thought it would ( mostly user error because Ican’t hit keys fast enough before the first cleave), but its cool that you can clear a room if you have decent dc’s. op much

  7. FuzzyDuck81
    Oct 15, 2013 @ 15:10:47

    Looks like a 2wizard splash could be interesting for a henshin after all, now the eldritch knight line has been revealed for wizards.. you’d lose the capstone & perfect self stuff, but gain increased resilience through improved mage armour & improved shield abilities, plus an extra damage-dealing clicky, a bit more doublestrike & access to wand & scroll mastery, meaning a half elf one could boost the scrolls & wands nicely too.

    • teachersyn
      Oct 15, 2013 @ 16:44:08

      Many things I’ve splashed in the past have just become more squishier, so I’ll leave some other brave soul to try this one. They’ll still not be able to wield a shield in any mode, of course or become uncentered. Maybe moreso now than before, that’s where I define if one is a “pure” Monk or not for purposes of the my guide and my 2 cents of discussion. Still, not quite the Warlock from NWN2. That NPC in the game, Ammon Jerro, was a badass. 🙂

      • FuzzyDuck81
        Oct 16, 2013 @ 02:59:20

        I meant the improved shield spell, which adds PRR as well as extra AC 🙂 Might give it a try myself at some point, i’ve got a character with a few staffs that i don’t use much & who still has his LR20 heart

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